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Dris Mi, popularly known as “Coach Dris”, has worked with international clients- athletes and entrepreneurs alike, around mindset and development. He is keen in helping ‘ambitious’ ones to do more and be more. Dris also hosts his podcast, The Mindset & Performance Podcast, which aims to underline the type of mindset behind successful people.
Dris is your typical short-answer guy. But behind his words is a bomb. He is actually a certified professional in a range of fields including business, coaching, psychology, and management. He is even certified by Forbes and is a contributor in Council Posts.
Before living the dream, Dris has gone through a long and difficult search, finding the right job that could provide the satisfaction he yearns for. This conversation covers Dris’ quest as a surfer and a coach. Mindset is the key and Coach Dris shares how to change your outcomes in a few, simple steps. He also talks about how his culturally diverse background became his foundation in his endeavor. Dris has always dreamed of travelling. And he has travelled really far, not only geographically but career wise as well. He loves to help people attain success and he mentions how through the services and courses he offers. Not only does he teach and train but he does so in a fun and exciting way. His clients can look forward to interesting activities, but most promising of all, is when all the satisfaction and realization they need kicks at the end of the day.
03:12 The Making of “Coach Dris”
15:49 Breaking Free and Connecting People
25:16 NLP Training
28:55 The Self-Stops vs The Growth Mindset
31:42 3 Steps You Can Do to Change the Outcomes
36:39 Coaching Athletes
45:29 Before You Take On A Career Change
47:35 Services and Courses from Coach Dris
Today I got to sit down for a chat with Dris Mi, who is also known as “Coach Dris”. Dris is a fascinating man. He used to be an art director in an advertising firm, but left his cushy job to travel the world, from Morocco to Scandinavia, and then to the US and finally to Bali. Dris has now tailored his life for the love of waves, blissful temperatures and good vibrations. You could say that dress was one of the first pioneering digital nomads of this generation.
Dris is in fact, a Mindset and Performance Coach. Beyond this mysterious word is a fascinating job. Dris empowers his clients to get into the right frame of mind to make the changes in their lifestyle, in their careers, or improve their sports performances. Dris has coached athletes, businessmen and women and is particularly interested in helping disillusioned millennials that are searching for a purpose in life. Dris is among the best of his generation and he is even certified by Forbes. In this episode, Dris shares the major pillars of his philosophy and his method and he shares a bit of his life story from growing up on the shores of Morocco to living the dream in Bali. He gives advice on how to foster your mindset to make major changes in your life, perhaps even a career change to get closer to the surfer’s lifestyle. At the moment, Dris is training the Chinese surfing team for the Olympic Games, and we get to talk about that too.
I hope you enjoy this episode.
Take care, have fun, and enjoy the waves.
Connect with Dris:
Ryan gives an interesting walk through in the making of his unique surfboards. The boards are so robust that the quality cannot be questioned. The custom designs were so intricate as well, that it takes a month to finish a single product.
For a podcaster making podcasts about careers in and around surfing, my encounter with Jeff Hakman is practically like finding the holy grail. I must admit I was pretty intimidated by meeting the man behind the biggest surfing brand in the world and I felt very honored and privileged to have a chat with him.
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Imi Barneaud: Hi everybody and welcome to The Oceanriders Podcast, conversations with creative entrepreneurs, thinkers and dreamers who also happen to be surfers. My name is Imi, and I am your host. If you enjoy my podcast, you can support it in a number of ways. You can rate, review and subscribe to it on your podcast app or on iTunes. You can follow me on social media, and you can even support the show by joining me for a chat. You’ll find all the details at the end of this episode and in the show notes. Today, I got to sit down for a chat with Dris Mi, who is also known as coach Dris. Dris is a fascinating man, he used to be an art director in an advertising firm, but left his cushy job to travel the world from Morocco to Scandinavia, and then to the US and finally to Bali. Dris is now tailed his life for the love of waves, blissful temperatures, and good vibrations. You could say that Dris was one of the first pioneering digital nomads of his generation. Dris is in fact a mindset and performance coach, and beyond this mysterious word is a fascinating job. Dris empowers his clients to get into the right frame of mind to make the changes in their lifestyle, in their careers, or improve their sports performances. Dris is coached athletes, businessmen, and women, and is particularly interested in helping disillusioned millennials that are searching for purpose in life. Dris isn’t among the best of his generation and he’s even certified by Forbes. In this episode, Dris shares the major pillars of his philosophy and his method, and he shares a bit of his life story from growing up on the shores of Morocco to living the dream in Bali. He gives advice on how to foster your mindset to make major changes in your life, perhaps even a career change to get closer to the surface lifestyle. At the moment, Dris is training the Chinese Surfing Team for the Olympic games, and we get to talk about that too. So without further ado, please welcome Dris Mi, the mindset and performance coach. Hello Dris, and welcome to The Oceanriders Podcast. How are you today?
Dris Mi: I’m good. Thank you for inviting me to the podcast. I’m actually can be tired to be honest. I’ve been working a lot lately and been intensive weeks. I’m good. Yeah, happy to be here. Happy to have this early break in the afternoon. It’s the afternoon over here, and to have this conversation with you.
Imi Barneaud: Thanks. So then, well, I’m really thrilled to have you on the podcast, and I guess maybe before we start, do you think you could introduce yourself to the listeners?
Dris Mi: Well, do we, I usually introduce myself to people. Say I’m a mindset coach. Like if it’s a professional setup, I’ll say I’m a mindset coach. I help young professionals and athletes improve and advance their career or their personal life, sometimes, athletic business, or sometimes just life as a life coach. I don’t like to call myself also actually life coach, but it resonates with a lot of people. They understand what it is while sometimes mindset coach and an artist. Otherwise, as a just me, my friends think that I am not putting myself too much forward, so I don’t know how to introduce myself. They think that maybe I’m too humble about who I am, and then when they ask the next questions, I’m just from Morocco, like very short answers usually on who I am and what I do.
Imi Barneaud: Okay. So where did you grow up?
Dris Mi: I grew up in Morocco. I spent most of my years there, so kind of moved away when I was a 28 I think, or 27? It wasn’t a planned move, just check my backpack and travel a little bit around Europe and a little bit for America and Southeast Asia of 24, 25 countries before making the move to Sweden. So, but I grew up in Morocco, in the capital of Morocco, and most of people think it’s Marrakesh, most of the people think it’s Casablanca, it’s not Casablanca, it’s Rabat . It’s this small city, 2 million people by the coast, Northwest of Morocco. And there’s no dunes and camels, it’s a city, but it has beautiful beaches that are very empty. And you’re in the, I was going to say the winter, but actually it’s not, so from September and to maybe mid or end of May, it’s all yours when you’re a surfer. So yeah, that’s where I grew up.
Imi Barneaud: Excellent. Excellent. And what kind of family environment did you grow up in to have such as a multicultural background?
Dris Mi: I grew up in a, I would say a middle class mom and dad, two little brothers, two younger brothers, I’m the oldest one. And I spent most of my childhood actually teenage time with my cousin who’s actually half French, half Moroccan, so he is a son of the sister of my father who was married to a French man. So we were very close, we were actually the first kids of my grandma. So we were very much spoiled in that sense. And we did everything together from a young age. So there was this sort of cultural diversity being in a French/Moroccan, but also in Morocco, it’s quite diverse. It’s known for being a country that is very diverse, very contrasted, not only from the culture, like we have a purpose, we have our — we have to choose, we have the French that have been living there until they pulled them like we’re born there and grew up there, and they have also, I get to meet a lot of Americans and Spanish when I was in high school, and a little bit over that when I went to University and so on. Because there’s a lot of embassies, there’s a lot of cultural places where we get to meet, I was exposed to that diversity in people quite early, which is always a good thing, you know, like you’re being in an international school somehow. And through surfing and through connecting to that circle of people, you meet mostly Europeans, Americans or bicultural mix people because those are the ones who would do surfing back then. It was not a sport that is accessible to everyone.
Imi Barneaud: That’s really interesting. And so, what actually inspired you to take off with your backpack and explore the worlds? Is that a friend? Was it your cousin? Was it the people that you hang out with?
Dris Mi: Well, I think I had it in the back of my mind for a while, I do that, I want it to travel and see what’s out there. I think the first time I went, I traveled outside of Morocco, I was 21 or 22, and it was just Spain — I remember. And I was just curious about what’s in Europe and what’s in the world, like where the internet was there. I think already we look up to different cultures and so on. Yeah, I visited before, I visited Spain, and Holland, and friends, and I think even Italy in my early 20’s, and then at some points when I was 27, 28, I have, I think my first early quarter-life prices was okay. I’m done with this job that I was doing, I was on the actor advertising, on the actor back then. I’m done with this job. I’m gonna take off and see what’s out there, and just travel around. I had that dream and it tasted so good to think that it’s possible to do with them. So in the beginning [inaudible] but it’s going to be too complicated, especially if I want to stay more than three months, you cannot keep the car outside of his hometown more than three months. So the easiest way was to go train, boats, and other types of transportation in Europe. And so yeah, that’s what happened the [inaudible] plan, had the backpack, computer I think, booked tickets and all that, I don’t remember the name of the ticket, but the one that allows you to use any type of transportation all over Europe?
Imi Barneaud: The sort of Interrail kind of thing.
Dris Mi: Yeah, I think that’s the one, yeah, yeah. And I helped him to take most of the capitals. I did most of the capitals and some other cities in each country. I started with Scandinavia, started in Denmark, it was a quick one. I think it was three days only. And then I went to Norway, I think one night in Oslo, and then look more nice in the Fjords, I was camping high up there and that was really beautiful. It was September if I remember well, earnest September, so still fresh but not cold or freezing.
Imi Barneaud: Freezing.
Dris Mi: And then Sweden, and Finland, the Baltic countries, and also Indonesia.
Imi Barneaud: And so, was that before or after that job that you had in Sweden?
Dris Mi: No, it was way before.
Imi Barneaud: That was way before.
Dris Mi: It was, yeah. I was in Morocco and then quit my job [inaudible].
Imi Barneaud: Okay.
Dris Mi: I did about five years in Morocco. And then, I thought, okay, I’m never gonna do this anymore, I was really tired of it, I was really over it because you know, our expectation from the workplace is different from what we are taught in school. We’re taught in school, you gotta be creative, and it’d be doing advertising, and working with arts and colors, and campaigns that are imaginative and everything. But then once you are out there, I remember my first experience, I was extremely disappointed because there was no process of whatsoever. And I worked in a really big agency–
Imi Barneaud: Really.
Dris Mi: –can’t say the name of it right now, it’s one of the best, and when I tell you afterwards about it, you will actually know what it is. So there was no process, no, all these things that we did, we’ve been taught in school, you can apply that. It was okay, take a product and make it look better than it is then sell it to people that don’t even need it.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: And the product itself was not necessarily meaningful. I mean, the client was the King. If he wants pink if he wants blue we put blue, and that’s it. So I was really disappointed from the first experience ever, and I haven’t even finished my degree back then.
Imi Barneaud: Right.
Dris Mi: And I was valedictorian for all the years, so I was really motivated to go there. So I pushed through anyway and then, okay, this is not what I expected, but let’s just do it. And this was good money and bounced from an agency to another one. But at some point I was okay, I will go back pack now and travel and find my way in a different field, not in a different country, which is let’s find my way somewhere else, something else I can do. I didn’t know about coaching back then, yet my cousin would say something different and say: “You were talking about coaching before.” I have no memory that, absolutely not. And so when I passed by Scandinavia, I was really seduced by the standards, not only the work standards in the workplace standards, but also somehow fairness, I don’t know if the word is fairness, the flat hierarchy system, your boss is your friend/leader, and you got to decide altogether. So I was seduced by the standard side. I was naive enough to think it’s going to just be easy. I’m just going to go there. Until then, I have a master’s degree, and I have experienced with Dixon wines and brands from Morocco, and they would yeah, come in, it’s just, here’s job for you. Wasn’t the case, it wasn’t the case. I had to push through a lot and doubt myself a lot. Knocking the door, I did all the facts to really get that, to have a deadline of three months. But anyway, before even getting to apply, I finished my tour about four months, I think, five months of traveling and then at the end of that tour I was supposed to go to South America. They said: “Okay, hold on, listen let’s not do South America now, maybe you should give it a try again in Sweden, or actually in Germany.” So I have this two, thinking of these two. So I decided to go for Sweden, and then I thought maybe I can give myself another chance in that same field. Advertising, marketing and attraction, because it’s done differently here, and it can be more creative, and it wasn’t that different, and it wasn’t it more fulfilling, and yeah, that’s what happened, then I applied for good jobs. Actually, applying was not the right way to do this, it was connections–
Imi Barneaud: Really.
Dris Mi: –and I have no connections. I had to go and meet people, and I had to go out at night, and I had to network like crazy and there was no specific way of doing, it’s like go to a networking event or something. I just had to go club in network events, cultural events, LinkedIn. And then from one thing to another, I get actually a photographer job. And for that company that I worked with for all the rest of the time, they had three different departments, and one of those departments were doing, they were doing schools photography, and they were innovating how school photography was done. So I knew how to use a camera, I get that job, I wouldn’t say dynamic young team, I don’t know, I think 60 something people, the bosses, they were my age. The office was just amazing, blowing their mind. So I really showed good intentions, good work, and they offered me, one of the main boss came, they were three. It’s only, I have this product, which is nothing weird at school photography, and I want to, you should take some pictures of them. So it wasn’t this jumpsuit, you know, the Onesies.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah, the Onesies, yes.
Dris Mi: It was big back then, it was just start off it.
Imi Barneaud: Right.
Dris Mi: And tell me: “I have this product, can you take some pictures of them like models.” And tell them: “Okay. What do you want to do with that?” I was curious if it’s just pictures or something else. They told me they want to do a campaign. This is okay, this is the time where I can show off what I can do because there’s not any more photography, it’s about campaign. Give me some input, he gave me more inputs, give me two or three days to come up with a campaign, I came up with a campaign that blow them. They was okay: “Wow, how much he wants for this?” And told them: “I want a job here.” and so: “0kay, let me think about it.” They were all quite in the room because I quickly need more copies and they were not expecting it. So let me think about it, then they offer me three months, and those three months I just changed the branding, the campaign, changed the website. I mean, I set the tone for the whole brand, which was a really big kickstart. And then the mother company, so they had three companies under school photography. The Onesies and The Model Company who has different products decided to hire me full time and that’s what happened. This is how I end up working in Sweden.
Imi Barneaud: That’s amazing. And so, what actually sort of sparked, because it sounds like you’re really sort of cool jobs, you had the responsibilities, you’re doing something that you are really interested in. What actually clicked in your mind that said: “Okay, I’ve had enough of this, you know, this is not my true calling.”
Dris Mi: Hmm.
Imi Barneaud: And I want to sort of break free of the system. What had happened?
Dris Mi: Well, after a couple of years, I think about four years on doing what I’ve been doing, I was wearing different hats, I was head of my department, this is outsourcing with a lot of freelancers from different places in the world. Spain, Ukraine, UK, had a lot of responsibilities and it was exciting job, dynamic company was turned best workplaces in Sweden. So it was really, really who weren’t in emotional leagues who do what I was doing, and see people [inaudible] the value of it. You know, at some points it became repetitive and somehow I get bored of it, bored of it and wanted, you know, we all want some sort of growth or keep on learning, or else we get bored. And I was looking okay, so what can I do differently? What is it that I can do within the company? I couldn’t climb more because I was already in reached the ceiling there. The company was having a lot of changes also in management, which was not comfortable for many of us in the company. And of course I went to Bali in 2000, I was this thinking about the ocean obsessively all the time. And so how can I like my life closer to the ocean? I grew up by the ocean–
Imi Barneaud: That’s what definitely that–
Dris Mi: –to Sweden. I was following different things. I was following different priorities. We should somehow, I wanted to, to make a point with what I always trained to do, and prove myself I can do it, and even different countries. I don’t know if it was for ego, by the way is not a bad thing, I think it’s a good thing So, I was on my second quarter, 30, or 31, or 32, something like that, I can’t remember. So I wanted to do something different. I knew it was going to be about self employment. I think I was already thinking about coaching. I first went to the States for a trip the company I work for, allowed me to work remotely. So I did another backpack trip from East to West while working remotely.
Imi Barneaud: Brilliant.
Dris Mi: And I get inspired during that time. It was actually the first time I was using Uber, Airbnb, all those marketplaces connect people together, and I enjoyed it. And then I arrived to Santa Monica, and I was, my god, so beautiful, all the pictures from my childhood, this is the first time I arrived there. And of course the first thing I think of is I want to surf. And there was no, no way I can really know where to surf easily. I mean, I didn’t have my, it was not the surf trip so I wasn’t, I wasn’t carrying my material like my surfboard and the equipment, but I thought, I wish there was an Airbnb that shows you who is available and who can go with you on a surf trip, or like a just a surf session, show you where, have equipment and everything, make it easy. I ended up surfing I think two days after when I met one of my childhood friends who lives in San Diego and was really, really, really amazing. So connects with him again also to surf those places. It was December, I think, it was really good weather also in December, really good weather. Anyway, long story short, we did the long trip from South, San Diego to San Francisco, it was amazing to do it with my friend. And in San Francisco, he dropped me there, he went back and with my [inaudible] friend, and my back was aching cause we were sleeping in the car, in the floor, and all this sort of legendary surf spots there. Says: “Hi. It would be great if I could do some yoga class, but I want to do it with one person like you because you want to know people, wanna connect with people like we are doing here.”
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: So it didn’t exist that app, didn’t exist that website that connects like minded people who like surfing or yoga. So I decided to create one. So I went back in Sweden. That’s okay, this is myself implementing, this is where I’m going to do, that’s what I’m going to be doing. So I had a clam, I knew how, who, where the developers were sitting because I used to work with them, and I was trained to outsource things with them, so I decided to do that. In the meantime, in the company I used to work for, I used to be the guy who would always talk about productivity, time management, priority management, communication in the workplace. So the company I used to work for paid for me training, full coaching so I can coach my colleagues and help them out with the professional development. So what happened is, I liked it a lot and I was lucky, this is what I should be doing, I had it in the back of my mind and quit my job. It was really clear picture, again, I’m gonna quit my job, sell my apartment, moved to Bali, launched that website, the surfing yoga, I think one, it took me about three months to create it which was really, really fast cause I was the designer/the client who knows about the product. So it was up and running in the meantime, or a little bit before that, I already started practicing coaching, unofficially back with the colleagues in France, and then in Bali when I created my own website. So my career as a coach took off a lot faster than that websites, surfingyoga.com that actually just sold recently.
Imi Barneaud: Ehm.
Dris Mi: And it took off because I had the shortcuts, I had the marketing skills, I knew how to market myself and expose myself to, and then not international audiences, international clients, and you hope to pass on the message to get it. There were usually someone who would have my training at the same time I did it. Maybe he would have either to learn how to do it himself, which takes sometimes plan, or hire someone, and I [inaudible] how to put myself out there, which gave me the possibility to get international exposure, but also quick experience, to the more job you have the more experience you have.
Imi Barneaud: So, it was a sort of ongoing process. How long did that actual transition take place? How long did it take you from the day you decided to quit your job in Sweden and actually have your first client as a coach?
Dris Mi: Paid clients? It was, maybe by the end of 2015, or no, actually September or October 2015. I came back from the States in January, 2015, I sold my apartment, quit my job, and I was in Bali in March 2015. When I think back, I think my vision was a very vivid, right? So now I’m breaking it down, for people as they want to take notes, it’s time to take notes, my decision was a very vivid, the self-talk was positive. So I was, it’s going to happen as possible, I’m gonna make it happen, so it was positive. It was not foolish, it was real. In the back, it was of course question marks. Will it work? What happen If it doesn’t work? What’s depression? What’s the backup plan? So I had some backup plans in the back of my mind. So it’s good to have those there.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: It’s good to have a B plan, but it’s good not to be held back by what’s the worst thing can happen. You just need to know what it is and keep it there on the side. Keeping moving forward for what you have to do, and the results could be great and amazing. You can plan and strategize, it save open.
Imi Barneaud: Excellent. Excellent. And so, I guess the training to be a coach, is that an ongoing process, or did you have to sort of get certificates, or NLP training, and also, I mean how long did that take to actually have the credentials?
Dris Mi: It was an ongoing one for I think about two years. First training, that you have a break, you practice, then a second training, and the third training, and like the main training I had was with Global NLP Training, a company based in the Netherlands. What an amazing teacher, very inspiring. I did X, Y, I did a retake, even if it was a good deal. And also, I wanted to confirm what I have learned in reinforces right, I did it twice, and there was the practitioner, the master practitioner, and the post master practitioner, which happens two years later. I had some certificates for some sports at sports psychology that I did also remotely the international business psychology at work, positive psychology, thinks about human behavior. So I kept on learning, like every time I hit the point, either with a client, or by listening to a podcast, or reading a book and I’m curious about it, I go and sign up for a course or something where I can learn more about it. And the learning curve is never ending.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah, yeah. It’s fascinating. And so, could we just focus on what NLP is? Or Global NLP is? It must be so vast that we don’t have time to go over it totally. But can you sort of give us a guess.
Dris Mi: Sure. So Global NLP Training is the name of the school, okay. But the, it’s just the name of the core education about neuro-linguistic programming, which is, to simplify it, I would say it’s a tool that would help you understand yourself and understand clients more, and connect with them so you can help them the best way possible. And it shows this frame works from a psychology in human behavior in positive psychology. There is a negative stigma sometimes about NLP, putting it in on LinkedIn for example, there’s people who think people who study NLP sometimes it’s all you have pressed this two times and think about happiness and then after you will become happy every time you think about happiness. This is somehow setting up an anchor for happiness, and anchor is a very simple thing. When you listen to the music that you have been or a song that you have been listening to when you were 18, you will remember how you felt back then. You will remember what maybe you smelled, what you saw, what you were hearing, and who, where were you, maybe you in vision it, right? That’s an anchor. The music is an anchor to some emotional and physical auditory kinesthetic states, right?
Imi Barneaud: Okay.
Dris Mi: So NLP uses this as an anchor, for example–
Imi Barneaud: A foundation?
Dris Mi: No, not necessarily foundation. One of the tools, there’s a bunch of tools, like a suitcase full of tools, and this was one of them, but the stigma that I was referring to is that people would think it’s some woo-woo thing, right? So it is not, it’s quite pragmatic, rational structure, processes and methods of coaching if you want to use it as a coach. Most of the people that trained with me didn’t use it as a coach, they used it in management, they used it in HR, they used it in their personal lives. So I don’t put that one forward as NLP coach because people don’t understand it yet, the more people ask me, I explain to them what it is. I use those, say 30 to 70% off it in my practice in microchip, I blend a lot of things.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah cause you have a really holistic approach in coaching where you’ll go through diet and nutrition. You’ll go through the mindset which will maybe focus on later on. You go through the physical, all sorts of different things blend into your coaching, and that’s I guess that’s really, really important for your clients.
Dris Mi: Yeah, it is. Especially with athletes, like nutrition is the least think that I get involved in, I can ask questions and let them figure out because about philosophy, like, my favorite way of coaching is asking questions. So ask you like: “What do you think about nutrition? Do you think it’s in check?” And they say: “Yeah, I don’t know.” “Are you satisfied about how your diet is?” And they’ll say: “I don’t know, maybe it’s a six or seven satisfaction limit.” And: How would nine look like?” And they will say: “Well a nine would the feeling alive, in an energetic, and this and that.” And I say: “Okay, what stops you from being a nine, or anything here? And on satisfaction level, and it comes to how you eat.” They were saying: “Well, maybe what’s stopping me is preparing meals, or knowing what I have to eat.” And I: “Okay. Now, what you have to do, you have to look it up.” So this is where I would be doing when, I help them find their own answers.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah. You’re empowering them to actually take their own steps.
Dris Mi: Yeah. But that’s mostly on the psychology that I work, less than in the body, and less than the nutrition that I blend in.
Imi Barneaud: So let’s talk about, let’s focus on on mindset for awhile. So what kind of a mindset is holding most of your clients back from their goals?
Dris Mi: The critical thinking, the negative self talk, the limiting beliefs, the self doubts, in the broader perspective, that possibilities that are out there. Yeah, these are the type of mindset that I would say, first of all, define what is the mindset?
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: What does mindset is? Mindset for me, personal definition probably exist in definition as well, is a set of principles that you are equipped by, that you live by. And those principles is simply statements, phrases, beliefs that guides your life, that guides your behavior, your attitude, and even your emotions. So for example, a positive belief that could be part of your pack of principals is when there are challenges as you can move forward, there is always a way. If there’s a will, there’s a way. And equipped by this type of mindset and add to it different ones that has similar, that are positive, they will constitute a pack of principles that will be part of who I am, and then I can call myself, I don’t know like having positive mindset or having a growth mindset.
Imi Barneaud: Yes. The growth mindset, this is kind of the basis of your philosophy. Could you say elaborate on the growth mindset
Dris Mi: Growth mindset? It’s Carol Dweck who came up with this term for the first place in her book and it’s simple principles, like, when people who haven’t growth mindsets, they persists when facing challenges. People who have a fixed mindset, they slow down or stop when they have six months, or people who have a growth mindset can navigate around obstacles, and when people who have a fixed mindset, they will completely change direction maybe if there’s an obstacle, or stop, or give up, or something. Again, with a growth mindset, if you will have criticism, you don’t take it well, you take it well I mean, like with growth mindset. When you have a fixed mindset, you don’t like criticism, and you just say it’s not useful. When people who have growth mindset, they receive as a feedback. The other principle is that people who have growth mindset, they will see other people’s success as a way of learning, like they can learn from it. When people who have a fixed mindset, or envious from what they have succeed. So, see it’s like four or five basic principles that were highlighted in her book that I work with as well with my clients.
Imi Barneaud: And can you actually change the mindset? You can remodel the mindset, is that possible?
Dris Mi: Yeah. You identify the beliefs that are holding you back, negative or parts of the fixed mindset. And you find out like how you can snip them or reframe them so they become more positive, more empowering, and that can help you move forward. And to give you an example of how it works, and this is what I use most of the time before with my clients and my personal life as well. Let’s take the example of this conversation we’re having. We started with I believe this conversation could be interesting, or that person could be interesting for my audience or for me to have a conversation with. We started with positive thought about this conversation. It led to have some sort of positive emotion, I don’t know, excitement, looking forward to it like it’s a positive emotion. It led us to have an action or behavior which is signing up, clicking, that’s the action, that’s the third piece. And then the fourth and the final one, as a result of that thought, and that emotion, and that action we’re having this conversation. So this four step thing works for absolutely everything we do in life consciously and unconsciously. So if someone wants to, I dunno, change an outcome or result situation that he’s not happy about right now, he has to go three steps backwards. So the first step, which is what do I think about that topic? Can I change my thoughts about that topic? Can I equip myself with a different mindset about that topic? Once you change it, when you flip it, then the emotion changes. So from maybe negative or the resourceful emotion to a positive one, then the action changes, intimately the outcomes and results change. Does it make sense?
Imi Barneaud: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. And that’s super interesting. So we recap the four steps. The first step is sort of–
Dris Mi: Belief.
Imi Barneaud: Belief.
Dris Mi: So belief, if you want to change an outcome, if you didn’t want to change a situation, any situation, business, sports, or I don’t know, personal life. If there is a situation that you are unhappy about, then you have to go first to see what you think about that topic that you want to change. Maybe you have, and you’re holding some sorts of negative thoughts about it. Let’s put it in a context so it’s easier to do. Let’s take surfing, since we are about the ocean and all that.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: So, if you think it is never going to be a good surfer, that’s the first step. You might see a little bit discouraged, some sort of negative emotion about going and surfing more often, right? So you feel a little bit discouraged and negative emotion, and then your actions is going from time to time trying a little bit, that’s really practicing and training on hard, right? And as a result of that, so that’s forced that you are, where you have always been–
Imi Barneaud: You’re not a good surfer.
Dris Mi: Right, yeah. You will be where you have always been. Now if you want to change it, like, I want to improve my surfing, so you have to go all the way back to the beginning, and say, actually it is possible. It’s hard, maybe. It’s maybe, I’m in a bit older than other people but doesn’t mean anything, if I put the right work, I can become that surfer that I want to do. So you changed your thoughts, what will you feel? You will feel, okay, I’m excited, I am motivated. So the feeling changes positive. You go more often to surfing, or you plan for it, do whatever you have to do. So the action behavior change, and as a result of it, there will be improvement. Absolutely an improvement. So these are the four steps and can apply it to any single thing you think of.
Imi Barneaud: Excellent.
Dris Mi: That’s the one I use. That’s like the template and the framework that I use for most of my clients, but there is also more intuitive. We’ll talk about values, and why it is, in the first place, important to them to improve that surface. Why do you do it? Like, if you’re doing it for the wrong reasons, look what’s going to happen if you change your mindset about it, if you change your self-talk. So first we start with identifying their why. Why are they doing it? Like their purpose, what’s the reason? If it’s to be better than other people, not necessarily a good thinking. If it’s because it brings me joy, and happiness, and contentment, and fulfillment, or abstract keywords that we call values, and yes, there is something there to pursue. That’s let’s be more specific, let’s make a plan, let’s break it down into my milestones, structure is very important. But yeah, the first two principles we’ll start with is identifying the negative self talk, the limiting beliefs. The second one is identifying the WHY, to make sure we do this for the right reason. And then what comes after is planning strategies, structuring and having fun of course.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, this is pretty exciting. And so, you also work with a lot of athletes?
Dris Mi: Right.
Imi Barneaud: Have you found a specific pattern? Because, I guess the mind of an athlete, it must be a bit more competitive than non-athletes. Is there a specific pattern, or a behavior, or a mindset before you start working with them?
Dris Mi: I tend to find them quite similar but different at the same time. So, I like working with athletes because they actually know what they want, and they’re less emotional baggage carried, it’s like okay, it’s about one end, becoming the best version of myself on improving, I don’t know, since it more clear why they’re doing it. And there’s less emotional baggage because they’re not carrying something heavy that is holding them back from moving forward, they need clarity. So about direction, how could you do it? And they need to work on self talk, and they get self talk limiting beliefs, and changing their mindset, that’s common so far. And they have distractor or the inbuilt, especially if they have been doing that sport for a long time. Athletes are very organized, structured people so you don’t have to, like, with other types of profiles, sometimes a structure is missing and they need to work on that first, and can they organize and structure before wanting to fall something. You need some sort of structure before moving forward.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah. That’s really interesting. I did see one of your podcasts and you were talking about talent and hard work, and what’s best for athletes. What would be more beneficial for an athlete on the long term?
Dris Mi: I definitely believe in hard work beats talent period. Yeah, so I’m right now coaching the national team from China preparing for the Olympics and it’s amazing what you can see. Like I’ve been, none of them is born with talents really. Like I mean, they have been surfing for not so long but they have the discipline that these kids have, hard work that they are putting into their training is so fascinating, like it’s exemplary.
Imi Barneaud: Really.
Dris Mi: If someone is telling you like talents matters, then come see this guys. There’s just pushing through competitive between themselves, very open to learning new things. And those are the type of mindsets, and qualities, and skills that one needs to be a good way. Curious, open minded, hard-working, disciplined, then enjoying it ,and having fun. We tend to talk a lot about discipline, structure and all that, but fun is very important and they all do enjoy it. So we use the same frameworks that I use with other types of client profiles, but on a sports tone, yeah.
Imi Barneaud: So specifically with the Chinese Surfing Team, what did you learn? And what did your students learn from this experience?
Dris Mi: I think they would certainly have learned a lot from me. They’re very positive about our experienced actually talking about bringing me to China for 2020, like, they’re talking about like a permanent position in that.
Imi Barneaud: Wow.
Dris Mi: We see what can happen. So I guess they are very happy with my approach and how I am working with them, what I’m teaching them.
Imi Barneaud: And what did you learn in this process as well?
Dris Mi: Even there’s something about it recently, I learned with them, I learned that talent doesn’t matter much.
Imi Barneaud: Right.
Dris Mi: I learned a talent doesn’t matter much. So many kids have shown great progress because of the hard work, that’s your first one. And I learned also that self-reliance is a really good thing, it’s the best thing that you can teach people. So like, giving them responsibilities so they can help each other. Like this afternoon, they have a skateboard training and I just spotted the two that are good, and told them: “You are coaches now for your teammates, teach them.” And then the one that learned, they will teach the other ones. And I’m just sitting in the back and observe them, which is a good thing because you see the smiles, you see, it’s very gratifying. And I also teach them to do self-assessments. So when we do a video analysis, I’m not standing there and tell them you need to change this and this and that. So I’m looking, watching 10 minutes of video and after that I will ask: “What did you learn? What do you have to change? What do you think you should do?” And then I’ll tell them: “Do you have questions? Is there something that you don’t know how to do?” So they learn to self-assess and recognize mistakes, and this mind with its competition and even got them to judge themselves — What do you think? Self-reliance is important. So they won’t dependent for anyone that’s willing to help them in many levels, they’re going to have them in personal life like in the future for them. And the third thing I wrote not so long ago was about Mindset Over Everything. So I can say it’s enough of this in your mental game. How often? I told them it’s about focus. So even this morning in the contest, it was an internal contest, you know, between ourselves.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: Like, to put them in the same sort of pressure that we’re having in a real competition. So, and it was, yeah, we could easily see the ones who are unfocused, the ones who are maybe a little bit nervous from their body language, from their hesitation sometimes in the way, and we’ll keep on talking about focus. How would you train focus? What is focus? I like to tell them how you do anything is how you do everything. So mindset is something you train all the time. Surfing, you train three hours a day. Skateboarding, maybe half an hour, one hour a day. Fitness is like an hour, two hours a day. But mindset is something you do every time, all the time.
Imi Barneaud: And so is it, breathing techniques or meditation? What kind of methods do you–
Dris Mi: Those are coping or emotional management tools, like meditation, some sort of focused training, yes. Okay, focused on your breath, focus on your physical sensors, focus on your auditory senses, what you’re hearing, and then go from one, to the other one, to the other one, to another one. They don’t like the word meditation. People have also, again, a stigma about meditation. Meditation is not only about sitting down crossing legs, and humming, and lighting candles. In sports is little bit different, I call it focused training, so it’s easier for the people who are skeptical. So meditation can teach focus because it wires the brain in way where he will focus on one thing at a time, not everything in the same time. When you’re nervous, or you’re in pressure, or this coaching this side, public and the other way, and the other side opponents there, your mind is all over the place and you need to quiet it, and focuses on a single important you have to do which is scoring, which is reading the wave, which is, and one at a time, no multitasking, so meditation helps.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: It’s a tool. Breathing is the most efficient one for quick, a reframe of how you feel. If you’re feeling nervous, a couple of breaths, and then you’re relaxed, and push the right hormones into your system, right. Those is for everything in your system so you can relax quickly. There’s a lot of strategies that I share with them. Those are the tools that I’m still teaching them. And the challenge is everything is in Chinese, and most of the Chinese, and this Google translate, it’s body language is a couple of words here and there with their team leader who can help me a little bit in English, and I introduced them to the breathwork from Wim Hof.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: And they have a little bit of skepticism about it. It was actually a Friday, which is almost out of the week because we train also Saturdays. They did metabolite conditions, like, the toughest workout ever, and they had long week, and we had some times, you know what? I’m gonna train you to some to that breathwork method and I have no Chinese version of it. So I took a side one of the team leaders and who’s also treating with them, she’s young, and I told her, okay when he says this, it means inhale. When he say hi say that, it means exhaled, so let’s just follow this steps here, I would like really trying to break it down very simplified way. And I pressed play on a YouTube video where they can only hear the sound that put them in a circle on the floor and they have done and they did it,15 minutes, three rounds. Skepticism in the beginning, but I can never forget their faces, and their smiles, and their eyes at the end of it, they were just sitting in a circle and I don’t know what they were saying, but it was just a joy, and I don’t know, they were surprised by the effect that it gave them. And then this morning, I saw two of them doing it.
Imi Barneaud: Really, on their own?
Dris Mi: Yes, that’s when you know that they have learned something and they have appreciated what you gave them. So yeah, it’s gratifying to see that.
Imi Barneaud: That’s brilliant. So I have the feeling that I’ve been kind of in a career change limbo for quite awhile. And what kind of advice would you give somebody who’s contemplating making a career change.
Dris Mi: Break down what you did to actually face those bigger waves, and what have you been doing? Like, how did you face those challenges? How were you thinking about anything? If you find out you breaking down to, like, a breakdown process, and the attitude, and the mindset, you can take those processes and apply them to anything else. This is skill transfer, or resources transfer to other things. This happens a lot with the athletes, but also with people who want to change careers. They often labeled themselves as with the job that they held and they were doing. So they think, okay, I have been a doctor all my life. What can I do now? Can I just quit and change? I want to do something different, I’m happy, but what should I do? I tell them hold on a second. What skills did you employ during this whole period of your life at school and a practical career? Did you have employed to help you get to this point of your life, which you cannot deny that there is certain success in it, whatever that success means. So look at those skills from the re-identifying yourself on who you are as those skills, not as the title that you have. So those skills, yeah, you can transfer those skills to the next step, like athletes also on, at the end of their career, the same thing like, okay, I’m going to into, I was a soccer player, and you can trust for them, and if there’s ones that are not yet there, so then you can look at how you can improve them, how we can learn them.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah. That’s really interesting. Yeah, the fact that actually, the identity is what defines you, not the job that you do, kind of thing, it’s your real true identity.
Dris Mi: Yeah. Identities, the skills that you have learned, your emotional intelligence, yeah. Those things really identifies who you are.
Imi Barneaud: That’s fascinating, Dris. It really is, I could go on forever having this conversation, but I guess we’d better move on. And I just wanted to, sort of, go through exactly what kind of different services you offer in your coaching business, and what people can expect if they hire you.
Dris Mi: So mindset and performance coaching for fitness professionals as well as athletes. So that means we work on the psychology mainly, and we hover over other parts of what it is to become performance which we going to talk also about sleep, about food, about attitudes, and behavior. Of course, it’s not really only mindset, but mostly on mindset, that’s the base. And what I mean here by business professionals, people who are active, you know, we all have some sorts of jobs, I didn’t know how to call it, but like you and I out of people who have some sort of activity in one move into the next level. I do enjoy a lot working with athletes much more, but I also work with business professionals. I enjoy working with them, especially the ones that are ambitious, wanting to do more, be more, and yeah, ambitious. Ambitious is the right word here. So figure out things, create processes, be creative. If my clients are athletes, they are a wider range, I would say from the youngest one I had, I think he was nine years old.
Imi Barneaud: Wow.
Dris Mi: Only had one that is nine years old, but then had a good range between 12 and 18, and then I have confirmed once are between, I dunno, 20 and 30 years old. Aircraft, aerobatic, golfer, a standard paddle, a surfer, and half car racer from the UK, rugby player, yeah, a wide range of athletes. With business professionals, it’s usually between 25 and 35, and those are the ones that usually ticked all the boxes as young adults between 25, 13. Okay, now what do I do next? I’m not fulfilled, I’m not happy. I want to do something different, or still at 25, 26, and like I was before like them, that was okay, I’m disappointed from the workplace. This isn’t why I studied to do what I do, and now I want to figure out what’s the next steps and a half. So many plans, or I have no plans at all and I want to do something, and help me out. Haven’t figured it out that 30 to 35, or even 40 years old are often, already they’re on their path like working hard and they need to small tweaks to improve, quite self-aware. They have done some sort of work and they want to do small tweaks to improve more, or that passive income or something. And I do have also an older clientele, recently I’ve been working with people turn 40, the oldest one is 56 I think or 57, in different stations in life. And I respect that a lot because they go and talk to the younger guy that is younger than them, and okay, helped me out with this, or support me during that period, which I find it very interesting and fascinating, it’s humbles me.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: So I offer this type of services remotely most of the time, 90% of my clients are abroad and I never meet them, they call me, they find me on the internet, and then we get in touch and do the work. And I have another type of service with locally in Bali where I meet clients face to face in sort of very different retreat, it’s a one on one retreat. When people hear retreats, like a group of people doing yoga, drinking glass shots, and doing meditation all day, it’s a little bit different. I call this retreat because it’s a good commercial name, it works, it attracts people, but it’s actually a sort of retreat. It’s five days intensive surf in the morning to loosen them up, and they like surfing, and they like the water, and there’s a really huge benefits from being in the ocean, you know, the Blue Mind book.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah.
Dris Mi: The benefits of the ocean and near the ocean are maintenance and does help them a lot in many anyways. And then after that we meet in the morning and we have our breakfast, and we chat and get to connected with each other, and do the work two to three hours over breakfast every time in a very different place so they have to discover, they can discover a little bit of the amazing places in Canggu in Bali. And then the afternoon they do their yoga class with my business partner, yoga teacher in our studio, yoga studio. And then all the time between that, they have a lot of homework. So oftentimes, at the end of the five days they are not so rested, they are exhausted, it’s not the typical retreat like the homework, cerebral, and mental homework. They have to really drill in there to find the answers, and plans, and strategies forward they’re looking for in the first place where they reach out. To me, this type of clientele is similar to the first ones, but not often athletes I get, like, life coaching kind of clients and personal professional growth kind of clients, that service number two. Service number three would be my online courses where I have recorded videos, created materials, spends a lot of hours and lot of dedication there, finding and curated the right material to make it as simple as possible, as clear as possible, as efficient as possible so that people who maybe doesn’t have time to sign up for the one on ones, it’s time consuming. You need to dedicate a couple of hours, you know, sometimes for weeks, sometimes for months to do the one one work, or sometimes just the preference, people would like to have something go on their own pace. So there’s two courses out there. One is called The Waterman Course, and The Waterman Course is not about becoming a waterman is, it is about becoming a waterman, it’s like pushing through your boundaries, your limits to enjoy more time being in the ocean whether you’re a surfer, [inaudible] people who like sports or watch sports, showing them the tools through PDF, videos, and also not my own videos but other videos, people like inspirational videos, and educational videos on how we can go step by step to improve your water sport. Either you are an athlete, professional one, or beginner, or an advanced one who, I don’t know, want to ride the big waves out there. And the either of course is The Career Change Course.
Imi Barneaud: Yes.
Dris Mi: The same templates, I mean, with the presentations with PDF’s would exist with homework, and they can sign up on my website.
Imi Barneaud: Okay, well that’s really, and then you have a podcast as well, which is really exciting where you interview athletes.
Dris Mi: This is Offering Value Podcast, articles I write on my website, on the forums, or on other platforms is to be able to offer, because I want to have 360 kinds of value, you know, people who don’t want to buy anything. Oh, I can’t buy anything. We can still find information that is useful on the podcast, on the articles that I write, or eBooks that are free and available website. So yes, I do like and enjoy having conversations on podcasts and writing articles.
Imi Barneaud: Yeah, that’s excellent. In the show notes, we’ll put all the links to all the different ways of getting a hold of you, and your different profiles on Forbes and on your website. And I guess before we leave, any advice on where to go surfing in Bali at the moment?
Dris Mi: Don’t go to Bali–
Imi Barneaud: Don’t go to Bali.
Dris Mi: There’s no waves here (laughs).
Imi Barneaud: (laughs).
Dris Mi: What are you talking about (laughs)?
Imi Barneaud: Okay (laughs), it’s taken. Okay. I have the four last questions is basically sentences that my guests finished for me. So the first one is I love.
Dris Mi: Surfing.
Imi Barneaud: I miss.
Dris Mi: My family.
Imi Barneaud: I wish.
Dris Mi: Can surf every day.
Imi Barneaud: And I want.
Dris Mi: A life full of joy, happiness, contentment, growth, adventures, love, warmth, success and connections.
Imi Barneaud: Excellent. Lovely. That’s a lovely way to finish this interview. And how would you feel?
Dris Mi: I feel emotional, it’s so great, it’s nice to have a conversation with you.
Imi Barneaud: That’s great. And yeah, before we leave, how to get a hold of you, please give that your Instagram, website.
Dris Mi: Coach Dris on Instagram, and a website, thebodyandmindcoach.com, thebodyandmindcoach.com, and it’s the easiest way to connect with me. And then the email is dristhebodyandmindcoach.com. You can not miss a link or a button to contact me on my website as I highlight the demo all for its actions. So just click there, reach out. I’m my Instagram also have everything you need to reach out to me, and I will usually respond to anyone and everyone. Yeah, I’m always try to be as available as possible to everyone.
Imi Barneaud: Okay. Well thank you so much Dris, and all the details of being in the show notes. And thank you for being my guest today. Take care.
Dris Mi: Thank you, bye bye, have a nice day.
Imi Barneaud: That was a fascinating conversation. I’m really grateful for Dris advice about career changes, and the growth mindset. Dris is definitely a living, breathing example of the power of the mindset and it’s certainly managed to tailor his lifestyle to fit with his love of the ocean and surfing. I guess if you’d like to go further with Dris, you should look him up directly online. His website is www.thebodyandmindcoach.com, and his Instagram account is @coach_dris. He’s also got a medium account, you can look him up at DRIS | MINDSET AND PERFORMANCE COACH.
The Oceanriders Podcast is a passion project and if you like it, you can support it in a number of ways. Number one, share your love for this podcast on iTunes by giving it a few stars or a review, but it’s still you could subscribe and anything in this direction increases my ranking, and lets more people hear about my fascinating guests, and how they are creating a surf friendly lifestyle. Number two, comment and join the conversation on social media. You’ll find links to my social media accounts on the oceanriderspodcast.com, and you can also connect with me directly on Instagram @theoceanriderspodcast, on Facebook, at The Oceanriders Podcast, or on Twitter @imipodcast. And finally you can join me for an episode or work with me. Just send an email to firstname.lastname@example.org, and I’ll take care of the rest. That sounds the way, now I would like to thank Dris for being a wonderful guest today, and I’d like to thank you guys for listening. Until next week, take care, have fun and enjoy the waves. Ciao.
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